Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: ksantilli Date: May 17, 2007 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

I have been having a light hearted debate with some people whom don't share my opinion of the Dead. My take is that we listen to similar songs, just a different way to express ideas, as far as ideas common to both some Dead tunes and Gansta Rap. I referred to some rather obvious choices to back my argument- Friend of the Devil- running from the law; more than one woman. Candyman-shooting Mr. Benson- Jack Staw, well you get my point. So my next step in the reconditioning of my co-workers is 80 minutes of such examples, so I can at least get some decent tunes in during the work day. Any suggestions from you guys? By the way, this gansta rap is truely offensive on many,many levels.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BryanE Date: May 18, 2007 3:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

I disagree with Max, but it is a subjective thing. A lot of it is HUGELY offensive to me. Bitches, ho's, niggas, etc. etc. To me, it's all counterproductive and increases pre-existing alienation between different cultures. There is also the question of double standards-if I were to, say, use some of those terms on the air in my radio job, a' la Don Imus, well . . . But if Snoop or Ludacris or whomever (I don't really know who is at question because I don't care for rap and/or hip hop and don't listen to any of it) do it, it's okay. At least, it's okay to some of the community, but protests from all sides are becoming more vocal. There is also the yelling fire in a crowded theater syndrome: if any of it encourages violence or otherwise unacceptable behavior, the community should reject it on that level, too.

Beyond any of that, I think comparing Grateful Dead music to gansta rap is a hell of a stretch.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: May 18, 2007 4:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

I think it's a really fair question, and not just comparing with the Dead.

Part of the reason "gangsta" gets such a bad "rap" (sorry) is that beyond the lyrics, the aggressive-sounding nature of the beats and music makes the songs appear more menacing...and much of it is. I agree with Bryan that the emphasis in the worst raps about calling woman bitches, ho's, etc., is agrresively mysoginistic...BUT, if you judge simply by the LYRICS of many Dead tunes (as noted, shooting Mr. Benson straight to hell, Mr. Charlie just un-loading his shotgun, Bobby singing about getting it on "with a girl who's just 14", or leaving his Uncle's "dead ass there by the side of the road", or Jack Straw cutting his buddy down, robbing the night watchman, etc., it would be very hypocritical to argue the message is any different.

But because the music that goes with it (think Mexicalli, which has a festive, jaunty, light-hearted feel) seems non-aggressive compared to the heavy, in your face beats that accompany many rap tunes, this stuff often gets a pass.

It can be found in many white musicians' music (Neil Young: "Down by the River/I shot my baby....dead") is just one example, so there is a bit of a double standard.

Interesting topic.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: mcglone Date: May 18, 2007 4:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

your're so right - very interesting topic! looking forward to reading where the day takes this post...

candyman - If I had me a shotgun Id blow you straight to hell

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BryanE Date: May 18, 2007 7:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

Good call, grendelschoice. If I cite a double standard between a refusal on the part of the rap audience to accept rascist and/or misogynistic rhetoric on the part of the community at large, while still embracing it within rap lyrics, then it does imply an air of hypocrisy on my part when I fail to recognize a long-standing tradition within rock-n-roll songs to routinely objectify the living shit out of women. You mention it in your reply, but I will go further to say that one of favorite songs' opening line is, after all, "We can share the women," so there you go.

Still, speaking of the living shit, that's what rap irritates out of me. Just dislike it. In a big way. Always have. So it's easy, and as I indicated earlier, entirely subjective for me to target it disdainfully.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: May 18, 2007 7:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

Well, Bryan, I actually agree with you for the most part.

I'm always wishing rap would embrace a more serious political or social consciousness (and some of it does...the early Public Enemy stuff and some others actually have something to say, and the genre itself is so perfect for expressing important thoughts;

I mean, you could argue that Dylan was one of the earliest rappers when you listen to "Subterranean Homesick Blues"--that stream of consciousness approach to lyrics, fast-paced rhyming schemes, etc.)...which is why the bling-bling, look-at-me-i'm-so-badass-I gotta-glock-gonna-pop-a-bitch approach to much of what makes up the most popular rap is a shame--b/c it's a missed opportunity, really.

It's also a farce b/c all that hardcore stuff gets eaten up by white suburban kids w/a wanna-be-gangsta complex.

Which brings me to this hilarious satirical video that some high school kids in my state of Vermont made recently and put on You Tube. Total tongue in cheek, and a really funny take on rap "Green Mountain Style"

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL7uW4TYqbs

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BryanE Date: May 18, 2007 8:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

I'll have to give it a look when I get home from work.

Astute observation there about Subterranean Homesick Blues. But I'm still at a loss as to being able to draw what I feel is a relevant parallel between rap and Grateful Dead music. Like I said earlier, doing so seems like making a big
stretch. The closest thing that I can discern that really makes any sense to me would be one of those versions of Shakedown Street where they do the final chorus in a round: "Don't tell me this townDon't tell me this townDon't tell me this town ain't got no heart . . . "

I definitely agree with you about how silly it looks for suburban white boys trying to pull it off. It's the visual equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. And if I'm seen as a rascist in reverse for feeling that way, so be it.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: May 18, 2007 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

http://www.spinjunkies.com/index2.htm

Fun stuff....

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: mcglone Date: May 18, 2007 4:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

apples to oranges? i'm on my way to work or i would give this verse from miracle a spin!

"I need a woman bout twice my weight
A ton of fun who packs a gun with all her freight
Find her in a sideshow leave her in l.a.
Ride her like a surfer running on a tidal wave"

tagged the rest on for fun...


This paper was turned in by an Oakland High school student who received the highest honors at the school district’s Ebonics translation competition.



Assignment: Please translate the following Rap song lyrics from Ebonics to standard English.

Artist: Notorious B.I.G.

Album: Ready to Die

Song: One more chance (remix)




Lyrics:

First things first, I poppa, freaks all the honeys

Dummies - playboy bunnies, those wantin’ money

Those the ones I like ‘cause they don’t get nathan’

But penetration, unless it smells like sanitation

Garbage, I turn like doorknobs

Heart throb, never, black and ugly as ever

However, I stay coochied down to the socks

Rings and watch filled with rocks



TRANSLATION:

As a general rule, I perform deviant sexual acts with women of all kinds, including but not limited to those with limited intellect, nude magazine models, and prostitutes. I particularly enjoy sexual encounters with the latter group as they are generally disappointed in the fact that they only receive penile intercourse and nothing more, unless of course, they douche on a consistent basis. Although I am extremely unattractive, I am able to engage in these types of sexual acts with some regularity. Perhaps my sexuality is somehow related to my fancy and expensive jewelry.





Lyrics:

And my jam knock in the Mitsubishi

Girls pee pee when they see me, Nava-hoes creep me in they tee pee

As I lay down laws like I lay carpet

Stop it - if you think your gonna make a profit



TRANSLATION:

I enjoy playing my music loudly on my car stereo. Apparently, women enjoy this also because they become sexually aroused when they see me driving. Oddly enough, when I visit the Native American reservations, some of the more sexually promiscuous Indian women attempt to seduce me in their homes. Their intent is to divest me of my earnings. Such actions are unacceptable.





Lyrics:

Don’t see my ones, don’t see my guns - get it

Now tell ya friends Poppa hit it then split it

In two as I flow with the Junior Mafia

I don’t know what the hell’s stoppin’ ya

I’m clockin’ ya - Versace shades watchin’ ya

Once ya grin, I’m in game, begin



TRANSLATION:

Understand this fact: you can have neither my money, nor my weapons. I suggest that you inform your peers that we engaged in violent sexual acts. Currently, I am rapping with my associates, the Junior Mafia. I’m having some difficulty understanding why you refuse to approach me. I am attempting to make eye contact with you through my expensive glasses, and as soon as you respond with a smile, I will approach you.





Lyrics:

First I talk about how I dress and this

And diamond necklaces - stretch Lexuses

The sex is just immaculate from the back I get

Deeper and deeper - help ya reach the

Climax that your man can’t make

Call and tell him you’ll be home real late

Let’s sing the break



TRANSLATION:

I prefer to open the conversation with light banter about my wardrobe and jewelry, then I like to discuss my collection of expensive cars. This is more than enough to convince you to have sexual intercourse with me. I am able to insert my penis further into you when I enter you from behind. Furthermore, you will be able to reach orgasm. I understand this to be a problem with your current sexual partner. He needn’t be concerned about your whereabouts. Please phone him and inform him that you won’t be home for a while. By the way, please sing the chorus of the song for me also.





Lyrics:

She’s sick of that song on how it’s so long

Thought he worked his until I handled my biz

There I is - major pain like Damon Wayans

Low down dirty even like his brother Keenan

Schemin’ - don’t bring your girl ‘round me

True player for real, ask Puff Daddy



TRANSLATION:

Your current love interest no longer wishes to hear your fabrications about the length of your member. After I had sexual intercourse with your woman, she became enlightened as to the proper way it is supposed to be performed; violently and immorally. It would be in your best interest to keep your woman away from me as my sexual prowess is very strong. If you are unconvinced, ask Puff Daddy.





Lyrics:

You - ringin’ bells with bags from Chanel

Baby Benz, traded in your Hyundai Excel

Fully equipped, CD changer with the cell

She beeped me, meet me at twelve



TRANSLATION:

Despite the fact that you attempted to win her at her doorstep with bags full of expensive clothes and a car (the lower end model Mercedes Benz which you financed by signing over your current vehicle) containing an expensive stereo and a cellular phone, your woman has contacted me through my pager indicating that we should rendezvous at midnight.





Lyrics:

Where you at? Flippin’ jobs, playin’ car notes?

While I’m swimmin’ in ya women like the breast stroke

Right stroke, left stroke what’s the best stroke

Death stroke - tongue all down her throat

Nuthin’ left to do but send her home to you

I’m through - can ya sing the song for me, boo?



TRANSLATION:

You, on the other hand, jump from job to job, barely able to maintain payments on the Mercedes Benz you purchased for your woman. Meanwhile, I continue to engage in sexual intercourse and commit lewd osculatory acts with your women. My only remaining option is to request that she leave my home and return to you because I have reached orgasm and no longer have a need for her presence.





Lyrics:

So, what’s it gonna be? Him or me?

We can cruise the world with pearls

Gator boots for girls

The envy of all women, crushed linen

Cartier wrist-wear with diamonds in ‘em

The finest women I love with a passion

Ya man’s a wimp, I give that ass a good thrashin’



TRANSLATION:

The ultimate decision rests with you. Whom do you choose as your sexual partner. I can take you on cruises around the world. I will dress you in the finest jewelry and footwear. You will be envied by women worldwide in your fine clothes and jewelry. There is a special place in my heart for beautiful women. I will defeat your man in an altercation because he is effeminate.





Lyrics:

High fashion - flyin’ into all states.

Sexin’ me while your man masturbates.

Isn’t this great? Your flight leaves at eight.

Her flight lands at nine, my game just rewinds.

Lyrically I’m supposed to represent.

I’m not only the client, I’m the player president



TRANSLATION:

You will be dressed in finest clothes on the runways of Paris. I will fly you to every state to shop for fine clothes and jewelry. You will enjoy sexual intercourse with me and your man will be forced to pleasure himself through manual stimulation. What a life! I’ll return you to LaGuardia in time to catch your 8 o’clock flight. The timing is perfect because I have scheduled a date with a second woman who arrives at the same gate at 9 o’clock. I’ll seduce her in the same way that I seduced you. I rap well and I am a positive reflection of my home town. Not only am I a sexually deviant, misogynistic, immoral, wealthy, male prostitute, but I also sit on the board of directors of the organization that governs others of my kind.





Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: May 18, 2007 7:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

Classic. Thanks for the laugh.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patourkid Date: May 18, 2007 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

im gonna laugh about that for a WHILE!!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BryanE Date: May 18, 2007 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

Beyond hilarious!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Max Chorak Date: May 17, 2007 7:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

Man how is gangster rap offensive? However one chooses to express himself (existentualistic individualism), is fine by me. That's like saying hippie's suck, or people that go into the military are "fucking stupid"... In this world, anything goes man, at least that's what I believe.


god Given Free Will

This post was modified by Max Chorak on 2007-05-18 02:39:29

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 18, 2007 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

How is it offensive? Are you kidding? I suppose if you were a woman who enjoyed being degraded then it's not. I'm sorry. It can be a real reflection of an all too real tough life, but appealing to the criminal mentality isn't exactly something I celebrate. Sorry, Oakland isn't anywhere near LA and other cities but a predator is still a predator to me, and I've seen more than enough for me and I don't care if I ever see another one.

My favorite is when I see rich white boys acting the Gansta! I wish someone would drop their sorry ass in Compton.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: tigerbolt Date: May 18, 2007 5:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

my take on the violence laden lyrics of the dead and gangsta rap,is that gangsta rap tends to glorify it where the dead has a hint of caution or despair towards it like hey this what becomes of you if you chose this life.where gangsta rap really does glorify the lifestyles of the lyrics at least from what i've heard.how many times where the dead involved in drive by shootings or arrested for starting fights at airports etc...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Max Chorak Date: May 18, 2007 9:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

If anything, this shit should -NOT- be censored.. I guess I hold up too many of the libertarian ideals.. I'm a Zappa in that way... lyrics are lyrics. Offensive? Don't listen to it. Pornography on television and you don't want your kids watching it? Don't own a tv. They are going to be experiencing these things anyways,

How one interprets, perceives, and lets this stuff percolate into their brain is a bigger matter of how lyrics can affect people, and rules out how they are "offensive" at all..Don't like mexicali blues? skip it. Don't like "Eazy - Nobody Move"? Skip it. I am a fan of late 80's earlu 90's rap myself, as a lot of that rap from that time, like Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five was expressing their socioeconomic status, rather than rap now-a-days where they mostly got it good, and all they have to rap about is "bitches ho's, money, bricks" etc.. If those lyrics you posted, mcglone, are offensive, [which i'm not saying you think they were, just theoretically] than why did you take the time to research them, post them, and then translate them? My point there is:

It's like, often times that people are so "anti" something, they have or already are delving into the specific thing way too much anyways... Just like anti-war ralliers that end up being violent.

I say fuck media, fuck censorship, fuck one's ears, and fuck onseself. I may be an ignorant kid, but I stand where I want, and will certainly utilize the 1st amendment via the internet, even if it does not abide by mod's rules =)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bigbossdan Date: May 18, 2007 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

I am with Tigerbolt on this. I can't claim any real insights into the lyrics of gangsta rap, as it is not a part of my world. As Max says, don't like it, don't listen. But I question a comparison of GD lyrics about illegal, immoral behavior to rap lyrics. There is a long standing tradition in folk or trad music to rhapsodize about women, adultry, murder, drink (Long Black Veil, Matty Groves, Wild Rover)- and the GD are keepers of that flame. But the point is not to glorify this behavior. My limited media exposure to the gangsta rap world reflects a gloification of guns and booty call.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Max Chorak Date: May 19, 2007 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

The Dead aren't representing this crap, like mexicali blues, they are telling a story...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: mcglone Date: May 17, 2007 7:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

"By the way, this gansta rap is truely offensive on many,many levels."

i would suggest you avoid most of martin scorsese' work, if i told you all that went down it would burn off both of your ears

This post was modified by mcglone on 2007-05-18 02:47:53

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: high flow Date: May 17, 2007 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

gotta agree....ice t could have written 100 episodes of nypd blue or the like...same shit, different media...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Max Chorak Date: May 17, 2007 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Dead vs Gangsta Rap

ice t is in law and order if you didn't know :)

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)